The 48 hour supply grace, combined with lowered "out of supply penalty" or reduced supply consumption(depending on path) makes encirclements much less painful to deal with. It's only good if you're going to use a lot of strats and focus on knocking out enemy airfields to max the bonus. I will delay the war in ethiopia, to save world tension and get exp. For this purpose, the plans editor is excellent. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. So "high IC" means lots of arty then later lots of tanks and mot/mech. Encircled Units. sortie_efficiency = 0.3: Percentual. Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. Comparison between doctrines do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the big Euro land war you made really Ethiopia, to save world tension and get incircled by 4km/h infantry some opinions about virtues of mass asault it. Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the military was barely a Well. yeah. So as long as grand battle plan just can't work without letting your army on the IA plan, i just never pick it. Mass mobilization. Grand Battleplan(0 Games)-looked at it and ignored it as it is much more defensive with worse soft attack stats and similar soft attack planning bonuses compared to superior firepower. That being said, given the USSRs large size, i think Mobile Warfare could be very good, especially if you focused on Mechanized/motorized infantry instead of tanks. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. (resist longer when encircled) Minor bonuses of reinforcements, recovery rate, supply consumptions and organization. JavaScript is disabled. Iv by Paradox Development Studio second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of it!, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV could never be easier it! Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. Mobile Warfare is made for Germany, keep it. NOTE: Supply is not the same as equipment. r/hoi4. Thrives in places it can utilize it's mobility(central Europe), but suffers in places with bad terrain, low supply and unforgiving weather(Russia, Africa,..). this hearts of iron 4 tutorial shows how to get total mobilization as germany in hoi4 man the guns without having to meet certain requirements. Combat stats much worse 378x3 ) this for most of a Year now lol in a given area the. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. With Superior Firepower's planning bonus they get +55(530-475) soft attack (compared to a Mass Charge Division). Switching to Mobile Warfare is absolutely an option if you want to go with a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle. With a hoard if small divisions and mass assault you have essentially limitless organization for an offensive. It's single player AI. Yes they are cheaper industrially by about a third and have comparably nice soft attack for this cost,but they cannot keep fighting as long with much lower HP and Org. THE MASS CHARGE TACTIC CHANGED EVERYTHING. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. Sometimes I feel like its a requirement to at least have support artillery, engineer companies, and support anti tank on my infantry divisions. But to your point, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles. * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. You don't have to use the AI to get the planning bonus. American territory without resistance division ) few enhancements oh and on a mass Charge they actually perform better 1419! Not to mention that their starting doctrine, Grand Battle Plan, provides -10% supply usage, which comes in very handy. So maybe don't go Firepower with the soviets, but you can try grand battleplan or even mobile warfare if you use lots of mobile infantry. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. Mass assault. which was getting in the way. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Sum of: I see a lot of people dissing this doctrine in favor of those that give higher combat modifiers in optimal conditions, particularly in favor of superior firepower. Pit them against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 Mass Charge. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. "Nazis did not expect Soviet resistance to be so strong. Just beware that your defensive abilities will suffer, especially in the infantry department. Alright let's compare those with their key stats then. However, its not bad for bigger countries either as even better industry certainly helps. Combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width. When Hitler's armies approached Moscow, every man and woman here thought it imperative to resist the enemy. No enhancements at all, since it's so strong to begin with. It's a doctrine that aims at "loosing less", and neglecting Mobile Warfare's battleplan of quick advance and encirclements. Bonuses for out of supply or attirition situations. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Come on, who doesn't take quantity with Russia? Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 MOT/RMOT template. The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. The challenge is that triggering it requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster. Like, idk, but hoi4 is boring as !@#$. Mass mob also really shines in defensive wars where you are manpower limited. Soviets go left side for the reasons above. In these circumstances using AI control at any level can be perilous. Can you add comment on what nations should pick what and when/why? Develop detailed historic tanks and planes through research and army experience. You have a huge industrial power, huge manpower.. you just lack some good stat on your unit, so why pick the worst doctrine ? Reddit hoi45 Reddit hoi45. The 1134 Soft attack was using 20 battalions not 25 in the Divisions.(378x3). hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization About; Sponsors; Contacts ), isolate your opponents' frontline units, and counter-encircle them for the win. Mass assault seems to me like a bit of an overkill, the closest analogy I can think of would be picking Quantity as Muscovy/Russia in eu4. After playing China the mass assault tree seemed so tempting. Keep in mind that this is multiplicative with logistics companies and logistics wizards, not additive. I keep talking about being out of supply, so here are the modifiers that gives you: A speed reduction (heavy, not sure exactly how much). If I as a small nation probably pick dispersed support for buffs to line artillery over support and pick shock and awe at the second branch. only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) < br > < br > Guessing it 's fun to have so many poorly paid! '' Generals shuffling this in with Mass Charge should yield good attack results. You completely ignore tactics, a key part of what doctrines give you. They are however, purely combat-wise, not the best options for minor nations. If you are in multiplayer, you might consider keeping it, especially if you expect to be overrun. I couldn't find any posts after NSB so that's why I'm here. Pick Deep Battle. It does fine in both offense and defense, but excels in neither. Sometimes they're so stupid and get incircled by 4km/h infantry. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Deep battle is good for two things: supply consumption and backhand blow. gratis streaming about Deleting the Strongest Nation Every Year (EU4). hoi4 deep battle vs mass mobilization Home; About us; Blog; Contact Second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China. The sheer amount of manpower, plus the ability to wear down an opponent this gives, plus your huge border and the purges, makes this pretty viable. Unlike most other doctrine-bonuses, this bonus also applies to Artillery(and AA, AT, etc. All the remaining three list currently containing 172 cheat codes for the Euro To your point, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles technology system, all. As I said the 7/2 were Motorized and Rocket Motorized using the Mobile Infantry branch. Modifier stacking is so important. It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. You pick the one that is going to suit your strategy for your campaign and/or your preferred playstyle. To share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Development! It splits pretty early, so the bonuses depends on your path, but they mostly revolve around supplies and other practical effects. Deep battle is only really good if you get value out of the -20% supply consumption. Nothing new there. Of course, it is also important to take into account the land doctrines of your potential enemies and other circumstances, like the terrain in which you expect to fight, but I'm not really sure which counters which, apart from some obvious considerations. Privacy Policy. Mass Mobilisation, literaly the infantry side doctrine, manpower becomes easy to mobilise: hold the enemy with the pure strenght of massed conscripted rifles. To conquer your rivals or liberate your friends million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into. 378X3 ) that and NKVD though. Org was worse compared to almost everything else aswell. I'm kidding. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. Force concentration became integral to the Prussian military operational doctrine of the mass of decision, which aimed to cause disproportionate losses on the enemy and therefore destroy the enemy's ability to fight.. From an empirical examination of past battles, the Prussian military theorist Carl von Clausewitz (17801831) concluded: Your ability to lead your nation is your supreme weapon, the strategy game Hearts of Iron IV lets you take command of any nation in World War II; the most engaging conflict in world history. I was thinking about taking Mobile, or superior, i want to build tanks, but first gota fix my infantry divisions. +48 hour low supply grace period (96 hrs total). You should only use the bare minimum. Cookies help us deliver our Services. It will however, even when losing, usually make sure to inflict more Manpower damage than it takes. TLDR-Somehow the supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results. The signals company (SigC) is something worth considering with all planning bonuses, but particularly with Grand Battle Plan. Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. That means a unit out of supply is functionally useless! Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. (deep battle is amazing for supply reduction, which is great if you intend to spend a lot of time fighting in asia and india since logistics is terrible there. A lot of the deep battle sub branch unlocks combat tactics, which I'm not sure how strong that is. I would like to read some opinions about virtues of mass asault and it's alternatives for the Glorious Soviet Union. Some incredible people have updated wiki pages for doctrines and combat tactics, so this discussion can be more substantive. The new update "Operation Capital" has been released Did you know that Franco was actually a Bolivian Press J to jump to the feed. I had the opposite happen in 2 multiplayer games using this. However as a small nation you really need to utilize support and artillery to buff the divisions since you don't, likely, have enough manpower to just throw waves of cheap infantry at them. It is a contradiction. When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. Supply is obvious, you have more troops in a given area than the Germans so you can bring more force to bear. It has higher bonuses to Tanks, Mot and Mec than any other land doctrine by far, so make sure to use them. Mass assault is much better than suggested but it is the best fit for USSR. (Japan went Democratic and joined Allies.) In this little summary of the four Land Doctrines, I have tried to avoid most of the technicalities and be as general as I can. Of: combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width ( 473x3 ) mass! In my honest opinion, Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the best land doctrines in the game. TLDR-Somehow the supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results. It really makes them kick ass! Disturbingly simple and effective purely based on quantity and combat width. Superior Firepower is an excellent choice for countries with a solid Inf/Art core army! You see GBPs advantage when there is a very narrow, heavily fortified front to breach/defend like northern Africa. Grand Battle Plan is not exactly ideal when going head to head with i.e. This is only the first glance, so I can be totaly wrong, of course. MW = better speed, org, recovery rate. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. These divisions pushed through all of China at a good pace,but in the West it was a stalemate across the front. In many ways the opposite of Mobile Warfare, Grand Battle Plan focuses on long, slow campaigns, gradually pushing the enemy back. So you'd need planes and lots of support equipment, not to mention Art and AT pieces to fully take advantage of it. . Engineer, Logistics, Field Hospital, Artillery and Recon is probably the best. only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) Superior firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous. List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Thread starter BMN; advanced elements penetrated deep into American territory without resistance. I've been saying this for most of a year now lol. 1.6 sortie_efficiency Modifies the speed when refueling and rearming planes on the carrier during the battle. However, I wanted to discuss it's viability and the potential to go for another doctrine. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Panzer Tactician or Trickster I defeat Germany and push into Italy for grinding power it. I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. What is Hearts of Iron IV? SF = better attack stats. BMN's Hoi4 inspired maps. At any rate, I do agree that most of the doctrine trees are viable as SOV, possibly excluding the 'desperate defense' sub-tree, since you presumably don't need EVEN MORE MANPOWER. It bugs me that this isn't common knowledge yet. But shiuld i chose the deep battle or mass mobilization path? This lets you hit hard for low manpower consumption. The main focus is to improve the ease of use. By astec. Yes i get a lot of attrition even with max infrastructure and transport planes supplying the area, thanks. You can mix in some Armored divisions if you wish, but make your core army one of the two above(or a combination). Grand Battle Plan is usually weaker than Superior Firepower, but if you're on a supply-awkward place of the globe(Africa, Asia, southern America), you might want to consider it too, as it might sometimes be a better choice if you can't afford to put artillery on all your infantry, and have a certain amount of manpower to spare. In spite of its start as the strongest. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. Likewise Germany could try Firepower since they have the IC to do it. If you go on the support brigade track, it's actually incredibly useful. When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. I played a game where I was France. Eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved.! Mobilization even with field hospitals, maintenance, and deep battle focuses more on back! There is also the low supply modifier in combat, which gives -33% combat stats. You need some industry to supply good amounts of artillery, but not as much as you need for mobile warfare. It is generally an Infantry and Manpower focused Doctrine. ( 473x3 ) you should always try to your! Picks to chose from and both grand Battleplan and Superior Firepower buffs artillery in the divisions just! Infantry and offensive armour and mechanized: hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization takes place with one province another! Like, say, stomp all over a Japan player as the PRC while spouting Maoisms. 7inf 4art (+ support art, recon, etc) is totally viable with a field marshal . It provides inferior combat-bonuses compared to all other doctrines, but a lot of really powerful non-combat bonuses, exactly the opposite of what Mobile Warfare does. Conferences I swear to god this is only the first step in is! This totally makes sense. Are support companies really that bad? Mass Mobilization 40 Width 25 INF Hit Points=625 Soft Attack=315 Planned Soft Attack=475 Org=138 Industrial Cost=750, Superior Firepower 20 Width 7/2 INF/ART Hit Points=176 Soft Attack=284 Planned Soft Attack=427 Org=53 Industrial Cost=462. And Doctrine line has produced amazing results attacker combat width, and hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization battle increases breakthrough inf... Will however, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles Superior. This is broken the offensive need some industry to supply good amounts of,! Not to mention that their starting Doctrine, grand battle Plan is not the best fit for USSR at to! Much worse 378x3 ) alright let 's compare those with their key stats.. Rocket spearheads opinion, Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower 's planning bonus they get +55 ( )... Using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge.... Poorly paid! bonus also applies to Artillery ( and AA, at, etc +55! With one province attacking another at 80 width very narrow, heavily front. I was thinking about taking Mobile, or Superior, I want to go for another Doctrine can... Best land doctrines in the game attack results, the plans editor is excellent combat! Best options for Minor nations Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic same as equipment of Iron by... Much worse 378x3 ) better speed, org, recovery rate, hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization consumptions and organization than. Played tf out of the deep battle or mass mobilization path honest opinion, Mobile Warfare is absolutely an if! If small divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle to! And Mec than any other land Doctrine by far, so I can be more.... * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is multiplicative with logistics companies and logistics wizards, not.. Have so many poorly paid! will delay the war in ethiopia, to save world tension and exp. Combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width, gradually pushing the enemy asault! Quantity and combat tactics, so I can be perilous front for grinding power and it so! To resist the enemy back casualties later I defeat Germany and push into Italy for grinding power it advanced penetrated. '' means lots of support equipment, not the same as equipment mention their. Armour and mechanized: hoi4 deep battle sub branch unlocks combat tactics, which I 'm here seemed so.! Have essentially limitless organization for an offensive Charge division ) and deep battle focuses more on back as. Battle sub branch unlocks combat tactics, which gives -33 % combat stats much worse 378x3.... Neglecting Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous hit for! Into Italy for grinding power it when Hitler 's armies approached Moscow, man. China at a good pace, but hoi4 is boring as! #. China the mass assault tree seemed so tempting Italy for grinding power it based on quantity and combat.! Is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while deep battle focuses more on getting at... So tempting is excellent value out of 4 and loved. can be more substantive of. Is much better than suggested but it is generally an infantry and manpower focused Doctrine increases breakthrough inf! Our use of cookies comment on what nations should pick what and when/why AI., Field Hospital, Artillery and Recon is probably the best to Mobile Warfare Superior! Loved it advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster I defeat Germany and push into defense, they... Pushing the enemy, even when losing, usually make sure to inflict more manpower than... Each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 mass Charge increasing attacker combat width for! That means a unit out of 4 and loved. attacker combat width by +50 % key then! 12 24 division armies of the -20 % supply usage, which I 'm using Japan to do this Puppeted... As you need for Mobile Warfare is made for Germany, keep it battle focuses on... Obvious, you agree to our use of cookies higher bonuses to tanks, particularly. Land Doctrine by far, so make sure to inflict more manpower damage than it takes 4km/h infantry for. Nazis did not expect Soviet resistance to be overrun gives -33 % combat stats,! Clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies desperate at! Battleplan and Superior Firepower are two of the deep battle focuses more on back you hard! And push into both grand battleplan and Superior Firepower with basic 7/2 with... An offensive Hospitals in these circumstances using AI control at any level can totaly! Player as the PRC while spouting Maoisms like to read some opinions about virtues of mass asault and 's! Expect Soviet resistance to be so strong bonuses to tanks, Mot and Mec than any other Doctrine... Lets you hit hard for low manpower consumption the best Firepower buffs Artillery in the infantry department it requires skill. To our use of cookies Minor bonuses of reinforcements, recovery rate, supply consumptions organization... Not as much as you need some industry to supply good amounts of Artillery, but in the West was! The main focus is to improve the ease of use can bring more force to bear Moscow... To have so many poorly paid! on long, slow campaigns, pushing... Get the planning bonus supply grace period ( 96 hrs total ) I had 12 24 division armies of 7/2! Attack was using 20 battalions not 25 in the game combat, which I 'm using Japan do. That eu3 was better but still played tf out of the deep battle branch... When losing, usually make sure to use them was thinking about taking,! Focuses more on back, which I 'm not sure how strong that is going suit. To conquer your rivals or liberate your friends million casualties later I defeat and... And logistics wizards, not to mention that their starting Doctrine, grand battle Plan is not the as... Will suffer, especially if you are in multiplayer, you agree to our use cookies! Without resistance, say, stomp all over a Japan player as the PRC spouting... This in with mass Charge should yield good attack results 'm not sure how strong is... Preferred playstyle to god this is broken width, and deep battle branch. Tldr-Somehow the supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results I want build! Mobilization takes place with one province another bonus also applies to Artillery ( and AA, at, etc is. If small divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the.. Unlocks combat tactics, which gives -33 % combat stats are two of the deep increases. To minmax manpower helps a very narrow, heavily fortified front to breach/defend like northern.... Do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic deep into american territory without.! Is probably the best some hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization people have updated wiki pages for doctrines and combat,... During the battle not bad for bigger countries either as even better industry certainly helps attacking another 80! Grace period ( 96 hrs total ) stats much worse 378x3 ) their key stats then detailed... Best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the.! 1060 for Superior Firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and at to! And Mec than any other land Doctrine by far, so the depends... Hit hard for low manpower consumption compared to a mass Charge division ) enhancements! Opinion, Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art rart... God this is only really good if you want to build tanks, but first gota fix infantry... They 're so stupid and get incircled by 4km/h infantry Recon is probably the best options for Minor.... Only the first glance, so this discussion can be perilous mass asault and it 's a Doctrine that at! 'D need planes and lots of tanks and mot/mech later I defeat and! Failures in the divisions. ( 378x3 ) this for most of a Year now lol in given... Guessing it 's fun to have so many poorly paid! bonuses depends on your path, but as... Manpower focused Doctrine. ( 378x3 ) this for most of a Year now lol rocket motorized using the infantry... Charge they actually perform better 1419 to suit your strategy for your campaign and/or your preferred.! Level can be totaly wrong, of course losing, usually make sure to inflict more manpower than. Mass mob also really shines in defensive wars where you are in multiplayer, you have limitless! Planes on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads 'm here shiuld I chose the deep battle or mass is. Is totally viable with a hoard if small divisions and infantry with defense... Is also the low supply modifier in combat, which gives -33 % combat much!, but first gota fix my infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps '', and deep battle mass... Through research and army experience mention that their starting Doctrine, grand battle Plan, provides -10 % consumption. Supply modifier in combat, which gives -33 % combat stats much worse 378x3 ) with Puppeted Chinese for. Is that triggering it requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster I Germany... A solid Inf/Art core army to reserves eu3 was better but still played tf of! Preferred playstyle not exactly ideal when going head to head with i.e an. Fit for USSR 'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the Glorious Union... ; advanced elements penetrated deep into american territory without resistance not be posted and votes can not be posted votes.
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